IT Inability to Hire Increases
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@dafyre said:
@scottalanmiller said:
The flooding of the market is really causing problems. The market is absolutely full of bodies, but not full of trained or experienced ones.
I can attest to this. I went through an A+ class with an excellent teacher (had us working in software and hardware and he really knew his stuff -- I was just in it for the cert)... At the end of the class, those that had no desire to learn still couldn't tell the difference between USB and PS/2.
I had a similar experience. We had a guy in A+ class (this was in highschool) there the entire semester, couldn't do anything with a computer, still passed the A+ test. Thats when I determined that the cert tests were pretty much worthless since you could just study for the test and have no practical skill to back it up.
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@brianlittlejohn said:
@dafyre said:
@scottalanmiller said:
The flooding of the market is really causing problems. The market is absolutely full of bodies, but not full of trained or experienced ones.
I can attest to this. I went through an A+ class with an excellent teacher (had us working in software and hardware and he really knew his stuff -- I was just in it for the cert)... At the end of the class, those that had no desire to learn still couldn't tell the difference between USB and PS/2.
I had a similar experience. We had a guy in A+ class (this was in highschool) there the entire semester, couldn't do anything with a computer, still passed the A+ test. Thats when I determined that the cert tests were pretty much worthless since you could just study for the test and have no practical skill to back it up.
The A+ isn't really an IT certification any way so that's not too surprising
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@scottalanmiller said:
@DustinB3403 said:
@travisdh1 said:
@scottalanmiller said:
The IT job market continues to tighten as companies find it harder and harder to find workers with the skills that they need.
Really? Wonder how many HR types would claim I'm not qualified just because I don't have a cert?
Yeah I've never understood that about certifications either. Sure if you work for a Citrix or VMWare or even an MSP who supports such software you want to say "we have certified professionals on staff to assist"
But as a hiring manager who needs someone with proven experience, a cert is just toilet paper when it comes to it. Prove it by doing what you say, not by showing me a piece of paper.
I've never seen anyone hire (or not hire) on certs. Literally, never.
Yep, we don't do worry about them. There not even listed as required, preferred etc on our job postings. We do however not hire a lot of people who had fake/dumb titles for the job they had. Or who only have SMB expirence, in the same job. They of we hire an SMB expirenced only person it's usually at the bottom. Going from SMB to enterprise is basically starting your career over.
We do pay for and give pay increases for both Certs and degrees though. Degrees usually being MBAs for those in IT.
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@hobbit666 said:
@scottalanmiller said:
You can be amazing but your career is over before you have a chance to demonstrate it because all of the managers are the 80% and have no way to know that you are doing well or, more often, do know it and need to crush you to support their own careers.
I've found everywhere I've worked so far that the IT Manager has ever come from the field, they have been managers in different fields e.g. Accounting, and "promoted" into IT. So I found this in one place and got out quick as the "manager" I felt was holding me back and taking advice from a poor MSP over my recommendations.
That's normal for IT directors and CIOs not to be from IT fields/backgrounds. They are usually a little bit technical. But they are business management jobs, not IT. Sounds like they just have bad management skills then. The CIO & IT directors are suppose to hire competent people, who they can trust and listen too their input. Because their employees would be the experts on the matter
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Yeah, when I first became an IT Manager, I hadn't worked in IT before.
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@Jason said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@DustinB3403 said:
@travisdh1 said:
@scottalanmiller said:
The IT job market continues to tighten as companies find it harder and harder to find workers with the skills that they need.
Really? Wonder how many HR types would claim I'm not qualified just because I don't have a cert?
Yeah I've never understood that about certifications either. Sure if you work for a Citrix or VMWare or even an MSP who supports such software you want to say "we have certified professionals on staff to assist"
But as a hiring manager who needs someone with proven experience, a cert is just toilet paper when it comes to it. Prove it by doing what you say, not by showing me a piece of paper.
I've never seen anyone hire (or not hire) on certs. Literally, never.
Yep, we don't do worry about them. There not even listed as required, preferred etc on our job postings. We do however not hire a lot of people who had fake/dumb titles for the job they had. Or who only have SMB expirence, in the same job. They of we hire an SMB expirenced only person it's usually at the bottom. Going from SMB to enterprise is basically starting your career over.
We do pay for and give pay increases for both Certs and degrees though. Degrees usually being MBAs for those in IT.
The only place that I find certs useful in the hiring process is that once in a great while they are useful for specifying a target audience. For example... we don't need someone with an RHCE, but an RHCE range of experience. Helps people to know that we don't want skills from outside that scope (or aren't looking for them.)
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@Jason said:
@hobbit666 said:
@scottalanmiller said:
You can be amazing but your career is over before you have a chance to demonstrate it because all of the managers are the 80% and have no way to know that you are doing well or, more often, do know it and need to crush you to support their own careers.
I've found everywhere I've worked so far that the IT Manager has ever come from the field, they have been managers in different fields e.g. Accounting, and "promoted" into IT. So I found this in one place and got out quick as the "manager" I felt was holding me back and taking advice from a poor MSP over my recommendations.
That's normal for IT directors and CIOs not to be from IT fields/backgrounds. They are usually a little bit technical. But they are business management jobs, not IT. Sounds like they just have bad management skills then. The CIO & IT directors are suppose to hire competent people, who they can trust and listen too their input. Because their employees would be the experts on the matter
Can't upvote this enough. A CIO is a business role primarily. Should they understand IT, sure. Should they have a clue, of course. But this is department management role, not a technical decision maker role. If you put an IT person there, which you can, they had better have some crazy good business skills and they had better not try to use their IT skills to micromanage or you have a disaster. No competent manager is going to micromanage, that's a newbie entry level management mistake, but bad companies promote bad people.
