ML
    • Recent
    • Categories
    • Tags
    • Popular
    • Users
    • Groups
    • Register
    • Login

    PBS Digital: Should Everything be Open Source?

    News
    open source pbs digital dmca
    8
    93
    31.7k
    Loading More Posts
    • Oldest to Newest
    • Newest to Oldest
    • Most Votes
    Reply
    • Reply as topic
    Log in to reply
    This topic has been deleted. Only users with topic management privileges can see it.
    • scottalanmillerS
      scottalanmiller @DustinB3403
      last edited by

      @DustinB3403 said in PBS Digital: Should Everything be Open Source?:

      Software rights of design are protected, physical property is not. I could set the tractor on fire and be within my rights.

      Even if that is correct, it does not matter, as part of the engine is in the software.

      DustinB3403D 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
      • coliverC
        coliver @DustinB3403
        last edited by

        @DustinB3403 said in PBS Digital: Should Everything be Open Source?:

        @scottalanmiller said in PBS Digital: Should Everything be Open Source?:

        @DustinB3403 said in PBS Digital: Should Everything be Open Source?:

        I am legally protected to do whatever I want with something I own, lets use the Tractor as an example.

        No, the point of this is that you are not.

        Yes I am (physical property is protected so I can do whatever I want with it).

        There was bill recently in NY, it failed, that would have made it illegal to work on proprietary hardware and software. It was so broad that it could have easily been applied to cars and tractors.

        DustinB3403D 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
        • DustinB3403D
          DustinB3403 @scottalanmiller
          last edited by

          @scottalanmiller said in PBS Digital: Should Everything be Open Source?:

          @DustinB3403 said in PBS Digital: Should Everything be Open Source?:

          Software rights of design are protected, physical property is not. I could set the tractor on fire and be within my rights.

          Even if that is correct, it does not matter, as part of the engine is in the software.

          But the discussion is of "can I look at it" and the current laws say you can look at anything you want. I can look at the software of the tractor, but not modify it. If I even have a means to "look" at the code. More so would I know what to do with the code?

          I can look at the engine, and even modify / repair it as it's a physical piece of property.

          scottalanmillerS 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
          • DustinB3403D
            DustinB3403 @coliver
            last edited by

            @coliver said in PBS Digital: Should Everything be Open Source?:

            @DustinB3403 said in PBS Digital: Should Everything be Open Source?:

            @scottalanmiller said in PBS Digital: Should Everything be Open Source?:

            @DustinB3403 said in PBS Digital: Should Everything be Open Source?:

            I am legally protected to do whatever I want with something I own, lets use the Tractor as an example.

            No, the point of this is that you are not.

            Yes I am (physical property is protected so I can do whatever I want with it).

            There was bill recently in NY, it failed, that would have made it illegal to work on proprietary hardware and software. It was so broad that it could have easily been applied to cars and tractors.

            Which would've put every car repair shop in NY out of business immediately.

            dafyreD coliverC 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
            • dafyreD
              dafyre @DustinB3403
              last edited by

              @DustinB3403 said in PBS Digital: Should Everything be Open Source?:

              @coliver said in PBS Digital: Should Everything be Open Source?:

              @DustinB3403 said in PBS Digital: Should Everything be Open Source?:

              @scottalanmiller said in PBS Digital: Should Everything be Open Source?:

              @DustinB3403 said in PBS Digital: Should Everything be Open Source?:

              I am legally protected to do whatever I want with something I own, lets use the Tractor as an example.

              No, the point of this is that you are not.

              Yes I am (physical property is protected so I can do whatever I want with it).

              There was bill recently in NY, it failed, that would have made it illegal to work on proprietary hardware and software. It was so broad that it could have easily been applied to cars and tractors.

              Which would've put every car repair shop in NY out of business immediately.

              On the small time shop mechanics, and not the Chevy / Ford / Dodge / etc places that are officially licensed to work on their respective brands.

              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
              • coliverC
                coliver @DustinB3403
                last edited by

                @DustinB3403 said in PBS Digital: Should Everything be Open Source?:

                @coliver said in PBS Digital: Should Everything be Open Source?:

                @DustinB3403 said in PBS Digital: Should Everything be Open Source?:

                @scottalanmiller said in PBS Digital: Should Everything be Open Source?:

                @DustinB3403 said in PBS Digital: Should Everything be Open Source?:

                I am legally protected to do whatever I want with something I own, lets use the Tractor as an example.

                No, the point of this is that you are not.

                Yes I am (physical property is protected so I can do whatever I want with it).

                There was bill recently in NY, it failed, that would have made it illegal to work on proprietary hardware and software. It was so broad that it could have easily been applied to cars and tractors.

                Which would've put every car repair shop in NY out of business immediately.

                The intent was obviously to prevent 3rd party phone repair. But yes it could have easily been applied to car repair.

                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                • scottalanmillerS
                  scottalanmiller @DustinB3403
                  last edited by

                  @DustinB3403 said in PBS Digital: Should Everything be Open Source?:

                  But the discussion is of "can I look at it" and the current laws say you can look at anything you want. I can look at the software of the tractor, but not modify it. If I even have a means to "look" at the code. More so would I know what to do with the code?

                  No the DMCA specifically says that you cannot do this.

                  DustinB3403D 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                  • DustinB3403D
                    DustinB3403 @scottalanmiller
                    last edited by DustinB3403

                    @scottalanmiller said in PBS Digital: Should Everything be Open Source?:

                    @DustinB3403 said in PBS Digital: Should Everything be Open Source?:

                    But the discussion is of "can I look at it" and the current laws say you can look at anything you want. I can look at the software of the tractor, but not modify it. If I even have a means to "look" at the code. More so would I know what to do with the code?

                    No the DMCA specifically says that you cannot do this.

                    You sir are wrong. 2015 Rule Making and From the actual source.

                    "Computer programs that are contained in and control the functioning of a motorized land vehicle such as a personal automobile, commercial motor vehicle or mechanized agricultural vehicle, except for computer programs primarily designed for the control of telematics or entertainment systems for such vehicle, when circumvention is a necessary step undertaken by the authorized owner of the vehicle to allow the diagnosis, repair or lawful modification of a vehicle function,"

                    scottalanmillerS 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                    • DustinB3403D
                      DustinB3403
                      last edited by

                      This clause states that I am entitled to look at the software to try and diagnose an issue with my equipment.

                      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                      • travisdh1T
                        travisdh1 @DustinB3403
                        last edited by

                        @DustinB3403 said in PBS Digital: Should Everything be Open Source?:

                        @scottalanmiller said in PBS Digital: Should Everything be Open Source?:

                        @DustinB3403 said in PBS Digital: Should Everything be Open Source?:

                        I am legally protected to do whatever I want with something I own, lets use the Tractor as an example.

                        No, the point of this is that you are not.

                        Yes I am (physical property is protected so I can do whatever I want with it).

                        You don't own software. Don't believe me, then you should've read that license agreement before accepting it.

                        I'll stop there before opening a whole other can of worms.

                        DustinB3403D 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                        • DustinB3403D
                          DustinB3403 @travisdh1
                          last edited by

                          @travisdh1 Of course, you don't own the software, but you are entitled to look at software that is installed to a physical piece of property you own.

                          I can peer into the software of my car to diagnose any issues the car is having. Legally. I have that right. I don't have the right to modify the software though.

                          scottalanmillerS 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                          • scottalanmillerS
                            scottalanmiller @DustinB3403
                            last edited by

                            @DustinB3403 said in PBS Digital: Should Everything be Open Source?:

                            I can peer into the software of my car to diagnose any issues the car is having. Legally. I have that right. I don't have the right to modify the software though.

                            No, show me how the DMCA allows that? You aren't allowed to open it up to look. not if they lock you out.

                            DustinB3403D 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                            • DustinB3403D
                              DustinB3403
                              last edited by

                              But I can look at the software, every piece of it that is a part of the property I own.

                              scottalanmillerS 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                              • scottalanmillerS
                                scottalanmiller @DustinB3403
                                last edited by

                                @DustinB3403 said in PBS Digital: Should Everything be Open Source?:

                                But I can look at the software, every piece of it that is a part of the property I own.

                                No, it is not. You license it. VERY different. You own nothing.

                                travisdh1T 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                • DustinB3403D
                                  DustinB3403 @scottalanmiller
                                  last edited by

                                  @scottalanmiller said in PBS Digital: Should Everything be Open Source?:

                                  @DustinB3403 said in PBS Digital: Should Everything be Open Source?:

                                  I can peer into the software of my car to diagnose any issues the car is having. Legally. I have that right. I don't have the right to modify the software though.

                                  No, show me how the DMCA allows that? You aren't allowed to open it up to look. not if they lock you out.

                                  Read the information I linked above.

                                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                  • scottalanmillerS
                                    scottalanmiller @DustinB3403
                                    last edited by

                                    @DustinB3403 said in PBS Digital: Should Everything be Open Source?:

                                    @scottalanmiller said in PBS Digital: Should Everything be Open Source?:

                                    @DustinB3403 said in PBS Digital: Should Everything be Open Source?:

                                    But the discussion is of "can I look at it" and the current laws say you can look at anything you want. I can look at the software of the tractor, but not modify it. If I even have a means to "look" at the code. More so would I know what to do with the code?

                                    No the DMCA specifically says that you cannot do this.

                                    You sir are wrong. 2015 Rule Making and From the actual source.

                                    "Computer programs that are contained in and control the functioning of a motorized land vehicle such as a personal automobile, commercial motor vehicle or mechanized agricultural vehicle, except for computer programs primarily designed for the control of telematics or entertainment systems for such vehicle, when circumvention is a necessary step undertaken by the authorized owner of the vehicle to allow the diagnosis, repair or lawful modification of a vehicle function,"

                                    Interesting, so you are saying that PBS was wrong and all of that article was incorrect fundamentally. It's good if they actually made an exception for that.

                                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                    • DustinB3403D
                                      DustinB3403
                                      last edited by

                                      I'm not saying that PBS has it wrong entirely, the software is still protected from modification under the DMCA ruling. But I as the owner have a right to look at the software (IE in the tractor example) to find out what is broken.

                                      Fundamentally PBS is wrong, yes (as from the 2015 ruling exception). Which is why Pi Projects for Car dash cam's etc are all perfectly legal. The ODB2 connectors etc that @JaredBusch is looking at.

                                      You're allowed to look, and export data for something you own physically. You aren't allowed to modify the underlying system though.

                                      scottalanmillerS 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                      • scottalanmillerS
                                        scottalanmiller @DustinB3403
                                        last edited by

                                        @DustinB3403 said in PBS Digital: Should Everything be Open Source?:

                                        I'm not saying that PBS has it wrong entirely, the software is still protected from modification under the DMCA ruling. But I as the owner have a right to look at the software (IE in the tractor example) to find out what is broken.

                                        Fundamentally PBS is wrong, yes (as from the 2015 ruling exception). Which is why Pi Projects for Car dash cam's etc are all perfectly legal. The ODB2 connectors etc that @JaredBusch is looking at.

                                        You're allowed to look, and export data for something you own physically. You aren't allowed to modify the underlying system though.

                                        Okay, so you CAN look, but you CAN'T fix.

                                        DustinB3403D 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                        • DustinB3403D
                                          DustinB3403 @scottalanmiller
                                          last edited by

                                          @scottalanmiller can't fix the software, but you can look and tell the manufacturer that their software is shit at this point or that.

                                          You can still tear the engine apart.

                                          scottalanmillerS 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                          • travisdh1T
                                            travisdh1 @scottalanmiller
                                            last edited by

                                            @scottalanmiller said in PBS Digital: Should Everything be Open Source?:

                                            @DustinB3403 said in PBS Digital: Should Everything be Open Source?:

                                            But I can look at the software, every piece of it that is a part of the property I own.

                                            No, it is not. You license it. VERY different. You own nothing.

                                            99.9% of vehicles in the US are actually owned by the state government. I know some people who actually own their vehicle, and they pay no licensing/plate fees. Private property is a great thing, too bad so many people aren't even aware of what their rights actually are.

                                            coliverC 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                            • 1
                                            • 2
                                            • 3
                                            • 4
                                            • 5
                                            • 3 / 5
                                            • First post
                                              Last post