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    What Are You Doing Right Now

    Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Water Closet
    time waster
    88.9k Posts 285 Posters 42.8m Views
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    • BRRABillB
      BRRABill @scottalanmiller
      last edited by

      @scottalanmiller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:

      This week's round of "I own the network, not the company, and I'm not going to hand over the details of it to anyone."

      https://community.spiceworks.com/topic/1997727-outside-auditor-is-requesting-firewall-configuration-files-is-this-safe

      Yes but you assume the CEO knows what they are doing. I think it's perfectly ok to question a request as opposed to just blindly doing it because you were ordered.

      Of course, I am also preparing to be told I am an idiot in 5...4...3...

      scottalanmillerS 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
      • scottalanmillerS
        scottalanmiller @BRRABill
        last edited by

        @BRRABill said in What Are You Doing Right Now:

        @scottalanmiller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:

        This week's round of "I own the network, not the company, and I'm not going to hand over the details of it to anyone."

        https://community.spiceworks.com/topic/1997727-outside-auditor-is-requesting-firewall-configuration-files-is-this-safe

        Yes but you assume the CEO knows what they are doing.

        Whoa, where did you get that impression? I assume that the CEO is the boss, nothing more.

        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
        • scottalanmillerS
          scottalanmiller @BRRABill
          last edited by

          @BRRABill said in What Are You Doing Right Now:

          I think it's perfectly ok to question a request as opposed to just blindly doing it because you were ordered.

          If by question you mean "double check with the boss and voice your concerns until he makes it clear you are to follow orders?" Okay, that's how you can handle that if you have that much authority. Anything past that, and you are insubordinate. It's NOT okay to refuse to follow orders. Questioning and refusing are very different things.

          wirestyle22W BRRABillB 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
          • wirestyle22W
            wirestyle22 @scottalanmiller
            last edited by

            @scottalanmiller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:

            @BRRABill said in What Are You Doing Right Now:

            I think it's perfectly ok to question a request as opposed to just blindly doing it because you were ordered.

            If by question you mean "double check with the boss and voice your concerns until he makes it clear you are to follow orders?" Okay, that's how you can handle that if you have that much authority. Anything past that, and you are insubordinate. It's NOT okay to refuse to follow orders. Questioning and refusing are very different things.

            Most companies don't even know how to fill out a proper job description but the expectation is they will know how to properly vet a third party company?

            scottalanmillerS 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
            • scottalanmillerS
              scottalanmiller
              last edited by

              So how would this conversation with the boss go? "Hey, CEO... your auditor is trying to do their job and I don't understand security, but I feel like this auditor is either a risk to my network or undermines my consolidation of power. I'd like to question your hiring this guy and if I should comply with the audit that you paid for or not?"

              wirestyle22W 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
              • BRRABillB
                BRRABill @scottalanmiller
                last edited by

                @scottalanmiller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:

                @BRRABill said in What Are You Doing Right Now:

                I think it's perfectly ok to question a request as opposed to just blindly doing it because you were ordered.

                If by question you mean "double check with the boss and voice your concerns until he makes it clear you are to follow orders?" Okay, that's how you can handle that if you have that much authority. Anything past that, and you are insubordinate. It's NOT okay to refuse to follow orders. Questioning and refusing are very different things.

                That's all I meant.

                If the boss said "hey erase all the files on the network" I'd definitely question and fight, and perhaps ultimately never do it and quit first.

                But yes, his network, his rules.

                I was reacting to you saying
                "Other than verifying that this isn't a scam and that the owners/CEO or whoever is running IT did in fact authorize this, IT has NOTHING to say here - this is not their right to assess. "

                I disagree that you can't assess a request and go back to the CEO (or management) and voice concerns.

                scottalanmillerS 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                • scottalanmillerS
                  scottalanmiller @wirestyle22
                  last edited by

                  @wirestyle22 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:

                  Most companies don't even know how to fill out a proper job description but the expectation is they will know how to properly vet a third party company?

                  I hate to tell you this, but:

                  1. This automatically means that they were unable to vet the internal parties too. So the internal IT would demonstrate that they can't be trusted automatically by triggering this line of thinking.
                  2. This isn't IT's concern. Period.
                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                  • wirestyle22W
                    wirestyle22 @scottalanmiller
                    last edited by

                    @scottalanmiller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:

                    So how would this conversation with the boss go? "Hey, CEO... your auditor is trying to do their job and I don't understand security, but I feel like this auditor is either a risk to my network or undermines my consolidation of power. I'd like to question your hiring this guy and if I should comply with the audit that you paid for or not?"

                    I'm talking about the initial hiring process. I can absolutely understand hesitation consider the company has no idea what they need or how to vet. After you hire a company though I completely agree with you.

                    scottalanmillerS 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                    • scottalanmillerS
                      scottalanmiller @BRRABill
                      last edited by

                      @BRRABill said in What Are You Doing Right Now:

                      If the boss said "hey erase all the files on the network" I'd definitely question and fight, and perhaps ultimately never do it and quit first.

                      What employee logic leads to that?

                      BRRABillB wirestyle22W 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 1
                      • scottalanmillerS
                        scottalanmiller @wirestyle22
                        last edited by

                        @wirestyle22 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:

                        I'm talking about the initial hiring process. I can absolutely understand hesitation consider the company has no idea what they need or how to vet. After you hire a company though I completely agree with you.

                        Right, and the situation here is that the audit is already underway.

                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                        • BRRABillB
                          BRRABill @scottalanmiller
                          last edited by

                          @scottalanmiller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:

                          @BRRABill said in What Are You Doing Right Now:

                          If the boss said "hey erase all the files on the network" I'd definitely question and fight, and perhaps ultimately never do it and quit first.

                          What employee logic leads to that?

                          I can already tell what path this argument is leading down. LOL. I've said my peace. 🙂

                          scottalanmillerS 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                          • wirestyle22W
                            wirestyle22 @scottalanmiller
                            last edited by

                            @scottalanmiller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:

                            @BRRABill said in What Are You Doing Right Now:

                            If the boss said "hey erase all the files on the network" I'd definitely question and fight, and perhaps ultimately never do it and quit first.

                            What employee logic leads to that?

                            What logic leads to employees having logic?

                            scottalanmillerS 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                            • scottalanmillerS
                              scottalanmiller @BRRABill
                              last edited by

                              @BRRABill said in What Are You Doing Right Now:

                              I was reacting to you saying
                              "Other than verifying that this isn't a scam and that the owners/CEO or whoever is running IT did in fact authorize this, IT has NOTHING to say here - this is not their right to assess. "

                              I disagree that you can't assess a request and go back to the CEO (or management) and voice concerns.

                              What would those concerns be? That the audit is real? That the CEO did actually authorize it?

                              Any "concerns" past that are not really appropriate, right? What possible "concern" is there here that is legitimate to bring up realistically?

                              BRRABillB 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                              • scottalanmillerS
                                scottalanmiller @wirestyle22
                                last edited by

                                @wirestyle22 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:

                                @scottalanmiller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:

                                @BRRABill said in What Are You Doing Right Now:

                                If the boss said "hey erase all the files on the network" I'd definitely question and fight, and perhaps ultimately never do it and quit first.

                                What employee logic leads to that?

                                What logic leads to employees having logic?

                                Given that that is the primary value in an IT employee....

                                wirestyle22W 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                • BRRABillB
                                  BRRABill @scottalanmiller
                                  last edited by

                                  @scottalanmiller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:

                                  @BRRABill said in What Are You Doing Right Now:

                                  I was reacting to you saying
                                  "Other than verifying that this isn't a scam and that the owners/CEO or whoever is running IT did in fact authorize this, IT has NOTHING to say here - this is not their right to assess. "

                                  I disagree that you can't assess a request and go back to the CEO (or management) and voice concerns.

                                  What would those concerns be? That the audit is real? That the CEO did actually authorize it?

                                  Any "concerns" past that are not really appropriate, right? What possible "concern" is there here that is legitimate to bring up realistically?

                                  In THAT particular situation, you are correct. I am arguing against the concept that IT should never question orders or raise concerns.

                                  scottalanmillerS 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                  • scottalanmillerS
                                    scottalanmiller @BRRABill
                                    last edited by

                                    @BRRABill said in What Are You Doing Right Now:

                                    @scottalanmiller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:

                                    @BRRABill said in What Are You Doing Right Now:

                                    If the boss said "hey erase all the files on the network" I'd definitely question and fight, and perhaps ultimately never do it and quit first.

                                    What employee logic leads to that?

                                    I can already tell what path this argument is leading down. LOL. I've said my peace. 🙂

                                    But you see my concern? If that's the reaction of said employee, you should be terrified that they have the keys to the kingdom. That they feel that their own emotional ownership of the network is so important that they would quit (or worse, attempt to seize control) rather than do their jobs is a HUGE risk and something we should specifically never see in someone we need to trust in an IT position.

                                    A security audit looking for that very reaction would be a good one to have, in fact.

                                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                    • wirestyle22W
                                      wirestyle22 @scottalanmiller
                                      last edited by

                                      @scottalanmiller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:

                                      @wirestyle22 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:

                                      @scottalanmiller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:

                                      @BRRABill said in What Are You Doing Right Now:

                                      If the boss said "hey erase all the files on the network" I'd definitely question and fight, and perhaps ultimately never do it and quit first.

                                      What employee logic leads to that?

                                      What logic leads to employees having logic?

                                      Given that that is the primary value in an IT employee....

                                      Only if they listen to you. If they don't listen you have virtually no value

                                      scottalanmillerS 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                      • scottalanmillerS
                                        scottalanmiller @BRRABill
                                        last edited by

                                        @BRRABill said in What Are You Doing Right Now:

                                        In THAT particular situation, you are correct. I am arguing against the concept that IT should never question orders or raise concerns.

                                        A security audit is a very specific thing. Trying to hold back security information from an audit... it's a bit ridiculous. There are concerns, but I addressed concerns. Now it is questioning the CEO's decision to question IT. That's quite the thing to question.

                                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                        • scottalanmillerS
                                          scottalanmiller @wirestyle22
                                          last edited by

                                          @wirestyle22 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:

                                          @scottalanmiller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:

                                          @wirestyle22 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:

                                          @scottalanmiller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:

                                          @BRRABill said in What Are You Doing Right Now:

                                          If the boss said "hey erase all the files on the network" I'd definitely question and fight, and perhaps ultimately never do it and quit first.

                                          What employee logic leads to that?

                                          What logic leads to employees having logic?

                                          Given that that is the primary value in an IT employee....

                                          Only if they listen to you. If they don't listen you have virtually no value

                                          Actually not quite. There is still value in employees that do their job. The issue here is that emotions can make IT not even do the job that they are required to do!

                                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                                          • NerdyDadN
                                            NerdyDad
                                            last edited by

                                            Have to keep perspective that IT is to Support the Business, not be the Business. If there is a request by a 3rd party for additional security information, then all we can do is verify the request by the CEO. Anything else past that, and we're being insubordinate. We need to assume that the CEO has vetted the 3rd party and that the 3rd party will properly keep our information safe, secured, and not to use it maliciously.

                                            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
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