Negotiating for a Job You Are Leaving
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@John-Nicholson said in Negotiating for a Job You Are Leaving:
@scottalanmiller I think people who are payed low wages sometimes internalize that that is all they are worth (and SMB managers often try to instill this "don't view yourself as valuable or increase your value because I can't pay you more!").
If your feeling this go listen to Katy Perry or something...
Yeah, like go to Vegas and gamble everything away!
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@scottalanmiller said in Negotiating for a Job You Are Leaving:
@dafyre said in Negotiating for a Job You Are Leaving:
@DustinB3403 said in Negotiating for a Job You Are Leaving:
@Dashrender said in Negotiating for a Job You Are Leaving:
@Mike-Davis said in Negotiating for a Job You Are Leaving:
@scottalanmiller said in Negotiating for a Job You Are Leaving:
This is a gig that has a change of responsibility. Mostly likely, a promotion.
So the real reason for leaving isn't money, it's the desire for a promotion. Sometimes there are opportunities for promotion within the walls of the company where you are, and sometimes there are not. When I read your first post, I understood that there was an opportunity outside the walls, and things inside the walls were going down hill. Asking for more money to stay sounded like a bad idea.
What it sounds more like is asking for a promotion and being prepared to leave if you don't get it. Money doesn't come in to play.
Yeah but that promotion will like drive a noticeable pay raise.
The reason for leaving sounds as though the person is at a dead end job, with no opportunities to grow. The pay is negligible as its sounds like this person simply wants to advance (career wise).
I left my old job for the same reasons, it was a dead end. Not until I said I was leaving did management even attempt to offer me anything at all. Which they offered a promotion, and that team members would report to me.
But it was to little to late. A valued employee should be spoken with (maybe during annual reviews) about where they want to see their career go, before the feeling of a dead-end job sets in.
I am at the point in my career where I want to be, I think. I'm actively doing the work in the trenches. The only step up for me is management, which is the type of role I actively want to avoid. It may still happen, but I don't see that any time in the immediate future.
Only step up... where you are? Management is not an step UP from the trenches, it is a step to the side. Management is not above technical work, it is simply a different (and easier) role.
I will correct my statement to say Step Out, then.
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@dafyre said in Negotiating for a Job You Are Leaving:
@scottalanmiller said in Negotiating for a Job You Are Leaving:
@dafyre said in Negotiating for a Job You Are Leaving:
@DustinB3403 said in Negotiating for a Job You Are Leaving:
@Dashrender said in Negotiating for a Job You Are Leaving:
@Mike-Davis said in Negotiating for a Job You Are Leaving:
@scottalanmiller said in Negotiating for a Job You Are Leaving:
This is a gig that has a change of responsibility. Mostly likely, a promotion.
So the real reason for leaving isn't money, it's the desire for a promotion. Sometimes there are opportunities for promotion within the walls of the company where you are, and sometimes there are not. When I read your first post, I understood that there was an opportunity outside the walls, and things inside the walls were going down hill. Asking for more money to stay sounded like a bad idea.
What it sounds more like is asking for a promotion and being prepared to leave if you don't get it. Money doesn't come in to play.
Yeah but that promotion will like drive a noticeable pay raise.
The reason for leaving sounds as though the person is at a dead end job, with no opportunities to grow. The pay is negligible as its sounds like this person simply wants to advance (career wise).
I left my old job for the same reasons, it was a dead end. Not until I said I was leaving did management even attempt to offer me anything at all. Which they offered a promotion, and that team members would report to me.
But it was to little to late. A valued employee should be spoken with (maybe during annual reviews) about where they want to see their career go, before the feeling of a dead-end job sets in.
I am at the point in my career where I want to be, I think. I'm actively doing the work in the trenches. The only step up for me is management, which is the type of role I actively want to avoid. It may still happen, but I don't see that any time in the immediate future.
Only step up... where you are? Management is not an step UP from the trenches, it is a step to the side. Management is not above technical work, it is simply a different (and easier) role.
I will correct my statement to say Step Out, then.
Not your only step out, then, you have a whole world of options that are not management.
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@scottalanmiller said in Negotiating for a Job You Are Leaving:
@matteo-nunziati said in Negotiating for a Job You Are Leaving:
@wirestyle22 said in Negotiating for a Job You Are Leaving:
@Dashrender said in Negotiating for a Job You Are Leaving:
@dafyre said in Negotiating for a Job You Are Leaving:
@Mike-Davis said in Negotiating for a Job You Are Leaving:
It's pretty sad that people with tech skills only see their next step as moving to management.
I see the only step UP as management. Anything else that keeps me in the trenches, in my mind, is a lateral move.
Is there something wrong with lateral moves, especially if the pay more?
Also, would not an engineering role be a promotion vs now?
I think management is a completely different skill set and I would consider it the start of a new career more than a promotion
I think people in this community has very different employers: we have no management role. I simply do it all: strategy proposals (ok let call them stratigies....), HW picking and sizing, setup, debug, customer care, sweeping.
this has been so in every place I've worked in. do not expect any change in this. rather the contents of the work let me think about a promotion.
Unless you are the CEO or owner of the company, there is always a management role.
What I mean is I manage engineer and deply all in IT. You can say I am COO and CTO for IT here. But actually I am just a dumb guy.
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@matteo-nunziati said in Negotiating for a Job You Are Leaving:
@scottalanmiller said in Negotiating for a Job You Are Leaving:
@matteo-nunziati said in Negotiating for a Job You Are Leaving:
@wirestyle22 said in Negotiating for a Job You Are Leaving:
@Dashrender said in Negotiating for a Job You Are Leaving:
@dafyre said in Negotiating for a Job You Are Leaving:
@Mike-Davis said in Negotiating for a Job You Are Leaving:
It's pretty sad that people with tech skills only see their next step as moving to management.
I see the only step UP as management. Anything else that keeps me in the trenches, in my mind, is a lateral move.
Is there something wrong with lateral moves, especially if the pay more?
Also, would not an engineering role be a promotion vs now?
I think management is a completely different skill set and I would consider it the start of a new career more than a promotion
I think people in this community has very different employers: we have no management role. I simply do it all: strategy proposals (ok let call them stratigies....), HW picking and sizing, setup, debug, customer care, sweeping.
this has been so in every place I've worked in. do not expect any change in this. rather the contents of the work let me think about a promotion.
Unless you are the CEO or owner of the company, there is always a management role.
What I mean is I manage engineer and deply all in IT. You can say I am COO and CTO for IT here. But actually I am just a dumb guy.
Well, CIO. COO runs operations, the department that makes the actual products of the company. CTO is the head of engineering, the department makes the tools for IT to run. CIO is the head of IT / business infrastructure.
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@matteo-nunziati said in Negotiating for a Job You Are Leaving:
What I mean is I manage engineer and deply all in IT.
Most people in SMB IT don't make the final calls, most have someone over them making the final decisions.
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@matteo-nunziati said in Negotiating for a Job You Are Leaving:
I am just a dumb guy.
You're among friends
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@scottalanmiller said in Negotiating for a Job You Are Leaving:
@matteo-nunziati said in Negotiating for a Job You Are Leaving:
@scottalanmiller said in Negotiating for a Job You Are Leaving:
@matteo-nunziati said in Negotiating for a Job You Are Leaving:
@wirestyle22 said in Negotiating for a Job You Are Leaving:
@Dashrender said in Negotiating for a Job You Are Leaving:
@dafyre said in Negotiating for a Job You Are Leaving:
@Mike-Davis said in Negotiating for a Job You Are Leaving:
It's pretty sad that people with tech skills only see their next step as moving to management.
I see the only step UP as management. Anything else that keeps me in the trenches, in my mind, is a lateral move.
Is there something wrong with lateral moves, especially if the pay more?
Also, would not an engineering role be a promotion vs now?
I think management is a completely different skill set and I would consider it the start of a new career more than a promotion
I think people in this community has very different employers: we have no management role. I simply do it all: strategy proposals (ok let call them stratigies....), HW picking and sizing, setup, debug, customer care, sweeping.
this has been so in every place I've worked in. do not expect any change in this. rather the contents of the work let me think about a promotion.
Unless you are the CEO or owner of the company, there is always a management role.
What I mean is I manage engineer and deply all in IT. You can say I am COO and CTO for IT here. But actually I am just a dumb guy.
Well, CIO. COO runs operations, the department that makes the actual products of the company. CTO is the head of engineering, the department makes the tools for IT to run. CIO is the head of IT / business infrastructure.
@scottalanmiller said in Negotiating for a Job You Are Leaving:
@matteo-nunziati said in Negotiating for a Job You Are Leaving:
@scottalanmiller said in Negotiating for a Job You Are Leaving:
@matteo-nunziati said in Negotiating for a Job You Are Leaving:
@wirestyle22 said in Negotiating for a Job You Are Leaving:
@Dashrender said in Negotiating for a Job You Are Leaving:
@dafyre said in Negotiating for a Job You Are Leaving:
@Mike-Davis said in Negotiating for a Job You Are Leaving:
It's pretty sad that people with tech skills only see their next step as moving to management.
I see the only step UP as management. Anything else that keeps me in the trenches, in my mind, is a lateral move.
Is there something wrong with lateral moves, especially if the pay more?
Also, would not an engineering role be a promotion vs now?
I think management is a completely different skill set and I would consider it the start of a new career more than a promotion
I think people in this community has very different employers: we have no management role. I simply do it all: strategy proposals (ok let call them stratigies....), HW picking and sizing, setup, debug, customer care, sweeping.
this has been so in every place I've worked in. do not expect any change in this. rather the contents of the work let me think about a promotion.
Unless you are the CEO or owner of the company, there is always a management role.
What I mean is I manage engineer and deply all in IT. You can say I am COO and CTO for IT here. But actually I am just a dumb guy.
Well, CIO. COO runs operations, the department that makes the actual products of the company. CTO is the head of engineering, the department makes the tools for IT to run. CIO is the head of IT / business infrastructure.
Just spent 2 half days wiring the warehouse....
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@matteo-nunziati said in Negotiating for a Job You Are Leaving:
@scottalanmiller said in Negotiating for a Job You Are Leaving:
@matteo-nunziati said in Negotiating for a Job You Are Leaving:
@scottalanmiller said in Negotiating for a Job You Are Leaving:
@matteo-nunziati said in Negotiating for a Job You Are Leaving:
@wirestyle22 said in Negotiating for a Job You Are Leaving:
@Dashrender said in Negotiating for a Job You Are Leaving:
@dafyre said in Negotiating for a Job You Are Leaving:
@Mike-Davis said in Negotiating for a Job You Are Leaving:
It's pretty sad that people with tech skills only see their next step as moving to management.
I see the only step UP as management. Anything else that keeps me in the trenches, in my mind, is a lateral move.
Is there something wrong with lateral moves, especially if the pay more?
Also, would not an engineering role be a promotion vs now?
I think management is a completely different skill set and I would consider it the start of a new career more than a promotion
I think people in this community has very different employers: we have no management role. I simply do it all: strategy proposals (ok let call them stratigies....), HW picking and sizing, setup, debug, customer care, sweeping.
this has been so in every place I've worked in. do not expect any change in this. rather the contents of the work let me think about a promotion.
Unless you are the CEO or owner of the company, there is always a management role.
What I mean is I manage engineer and deply all in IT. You can say I am COO and CTO for IT here. But actually I am just a dumb guy.
Well, CIO. COO runs operations, the department that makes the actual products of the company. CTO is the head of engineering, the department makes the tools for IT to run. CIO is the head of IT / business infrastructure.
@scottalanmiller said in Negotiating for a Job You Are Leaving:
@matteo-nunziati said in Negotiating for a Job You Are Leaving:
@scottalanmiller said in Negotiating for a Job You Are Leaving:
@matteo-nunziati said in Negotiating for a Job You Are Leaving:
@wirestyle22 said in Negotiating for a Job You Are Leaving:
@Dashrender said in Negotiating for a Job You Are Leaving:
@dafyre said in Negotiating for a Job You Are Leaving:
@Mike-Davis said in Negotiating for a Job You Are Leaving:
It's pretty sad that people with tech skills only see their next step as moving to management.
I see the only step UP as management. Anything else that keeps me in the trenches, in my mind, is a lateral move.
Is there something wrong with lateral moves, especially if the pay more?
Also, would not an engineering role be a promotion vs now?
I think management is a completely different skill set and I would consider it the start of a new career more than a promotion
I think people in this community has very different employers: we have no management role. I simply do it all: strategy proposals (ok let call them stratigies....), HW picking and sizing, setup, debug, customer care, sweeping.
this has been so in every place I've worked in. do not expect any change in this. rather the contents of the work let me think about a promotion.
Unless you are the CEO or owner of the company, there is always a management role.
What I mean is I manage engineer and deply all in IT. You can say I am COO and CTO for IT here. But actually I am just a dumb guy.
Well, CIO. COO runs operations, the department that makes the actual products of the company. CTO is the head of engineering, the department makes the tools for IT to run. CIO is the head of IT / business infrastructure.
Just spent 2 half days wiring the warehouse....
eww
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@scottalanmiller oh! And cleaned up pcs with pressurized air.. don't know how you call it... And of course I've coordinated the whole job
I've also coordinated the local isp guys wiring fiber from road down into the warehouse. First time I've hundreds of meters of monomodal fiber...
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Pressurized air is clear. If it was pressurized in a can, we sometimes call it canned air.
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@scottalanmiller said in Negotiating for a Job You Are Leaving:
Pressurized air is clear. If it was pressurized in a can, we sometimes call it canned air.
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@coliver hail skroob
