Is HR Really Blocking New Hire Processes?
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@scottalanmiller said:
@thecreativeone91 said:
I've never worked for an SMB that does not have HR, but the smallest "SMB" I worked for was 300ish users.
That's on the large (and rare) side of SMBs. It's very much an SMB, but it is in the top 1-2% of them by person count. The vast majority are small, very small.
I got offers at others much smaller but until I could make more than the commission sales job I was doing (and very happy with) I wasn't about to leave just to get an IT job. The small ones were piss poor pay.
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@thecreativeone91 said:
Maybe it depends on which location. They require degrees all the time on their posting even for linux admins. And I hear from many turned down for that.
That's a really tough one. They were told that that is why they were turned down, it's a handy way to excuse someone that you don't want to hurt their feelings and you don't want them to keep applying as getting a degree is an effort and takes time. But I know that RS doesn't have that requirement so they were definitely lied to (and Linux Admin specifically.)
What they probably leave out, and what they probably aren't told, is that if they had good credentials and experience instead of the degree, they would have gotten the job. Lacking a degree or other experience to justify not having one, they didn't get a job. Lots of people just state that as "not having a degree" since that would have fixed it, but leave out that having good skills or experience would also have fixed it.
That someone was interviewed without a degree and considered at all pretty much proves that a degree wasn't necessary.
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When go job hunting, I will ignore the requirements, a lot of times, if it is a job I feel I am a good candidate for.
You want me to have a masters degreee, 5 years experience, 5 Cisco certifications and an A+ Certification... and the job is for a PHP developer... Yeah, right. I'd put my application in for that. I even got a call back for a job like that as well. I wasn't picked for it, but I did get the interview, lol.
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@dafyre said:
When go job hunting, I will ignore the requirements, a lot of times, if it is a job I feel I am a good candidate for.
You want me to have a masters degreee, 5 years experience, 5 Cisco certifications and an A+ Certification... and the job is for a PHP developer... Yeah, right. I'd put my application in for that. I even got a call back for a job like that as well. I wasn't picked for it, but I did get the interview, lol.
I don't. Job requirements tell me a lot about the company. My current one, I was interviewing them in the interviews as much if not more than they were interviewing me! haha. They noticed that too.
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What I have seen is HR may place these rules on job openings. However I have never seen someone with skills and experience not have these rules bent if not broken if the manager wants to hire an individual. I think the only time this is ever an issue is entry level straight out of college jobs. Again, if someone would have just worked in the field for 4 years, they could probably get the HR rules broken if the manager really wanted to bring them on board.
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@dafyre said:
When go job hunting, I will ignore the requirements, a lot of times, if it is a job I feel I am a good candidate for.
You want me to have a masters degreee, 5 years experience, 5 Cisco certifications and an A+ Certification... and the job is for a PHP developer... Yeah, right. I'd put my application in for that. I even got a call back for a job like that as well. I wasn't picked for it, but I did get the interview, lol.
Exactly, everyone (or nearly everyone) knows that those are wishlists or copied from somewhere or some boilerplate. No one has those creds and no one getting interviews has them. Often those are added by someone down the line with no involvement, like a posting agency.
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@thecreativeone91 said:
@dafyre said:
When go job hunting, I will ignore the requirements, a lot of times, if it is a job I feel I am a good candidate for.
You want me to have a masters degreee, 5 years experience, 5 Cisco certifications and an A+ Certification... and the job is for a PHP developer... Yeah, right. I'd put my application in for that. I even got a call back for a job like that as well. I wasn't picked for it, but I did get the interview, lol.
I don't. Job requirements tell me a lot about the company. My current one, I was interviewing them in the interviews as much if not more than they were interviewing me! haha. They noticed that too.
This is true. Just because the requirements are silly and can be ignored from a "will they hire me" standpoint, it doesn't mean that you as the candidate should not see it as a horrible reflection on the company. How important is this job to them if the job posting didn't get even a cursory inspection and no common sense was applied? Do you really want to work for a company that sees itself in that way?
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@s.hackleman said:
What I have seen is HR may place these rules on job openings. However I have never seen someone with skills and experience not have these rules bent if not broken if the manager wants to hire an individual. I think the only time this is ever an issue is entry level straight out of college jobs. Again, if someone would have just worked in the field for 4 years, they could probably get the HR rules broken if the manager really wanted to bring them on board.
Then... is it a rule?
Guidance as a standard and a rule or filter are quite different things.
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In the UK pretty much all SMB IT hiring is done via a recruitment agency and recruitment agencies will filter our non-graduates for a huge number of IT positions. Whether this is at the request of their clients or not, I don't know, but it is a fact.
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@Carnival-Boy said:
In the UK pretty much all SMB IT hiring is done via a recruitment agency and recruitment agencies will filter our non-graduates for a huge number of IT positions. Whether this is at the request of their clients or not, I don't know, but it is a fact.
Ah, now that is interesting. In the US it is extremely rare (AFAIK) for SMBs to use agencies. The agencies are exclusive to the large business and enterprise space and I've worked with nearly all and none filter by degrees that I have ever dealt with. And I've dealt with everyone of any size in the US.
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So SMBs in the UK actually find the agencies to be good in bringing in candidates? The agencies are widely seen as one of the failures of IT in the US.
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Well, I've tried recently to cut them out and have advertised on Monster.com instead, but haven't been very successful so I've now brought some in and they've been ok at finding candidates.
By ok, I mean marginally better than doing it myself!
We've had some good success using Monster.com for non-IT roles though, including recruiting my boss the Finance Director, so we've saved tens of thousands of dollars over the last couple of years alone as a result of not paying any agency fees.
So how do US SMBs recruit?
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@Carnival-Boy said:
Well, I've tried recently to cut them out and have advertised on Monster.com instead, but haven't been very successful so I've now brought some in and they've been ok at finding candidates.
By ok, I mean marginally better than doing it myself!
We've had some good success using Monster.com for non-IT roles though, including recruiting my boss the Finance Director, so we've saved tens of thousands of dollars over the last couple of years alone as a result of not paying any agency fees.
So how do US SMBs recruit?
From my experience through word-of-mouth. The person doing the hiring mentions it to someone they are acquainted with who knows someone who is "good with computers".
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@Carnival-Boy said:
So how do US SMBs recruit?
Poorly.
Lots of word of mouth. Monster, of course, but very little of that. Direct application mostly.
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@coliver said:
The person doing the hiring mentions it to someone they are acquainted with who knows someone who is "good with computers".
I've had a bit of that but it is normally a waste of time. I have to explain to my acquaintance that just because their son lays cable for the phone company it doesn't mean they'd be a good fit for managing Microsoft servers. "Good with computers" is a very big field.
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@Carnival-Boy said:
@scottalanmiller said:
Direct application mostly.
Not sure what you mean by that?
Meaning the company has a way to apply to the job on their website and people put in their resumes directly to the company. The old fashioned way.
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@Carnival-Boy said:
@coliver said:
The person doing the hiring mentions it to someone they are acquainted with who knows someone who is "good with computers".
I've had a bit of that but it is normally a waste of time. I have to explain to my acquaintance that just because their son lays cable for the phone company it doesn't mean they'd be a good fit for managing Microsoft servers. "Good with computers" is a very big field.
You'd be surprised how often people get hired like this here.
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@coliver said:
You'd be surprised how often people get hired like this here.
In the smallest companies this is just about the only process that is used. Or hoping that someone stops by and asks for a job.
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I'm after a generalist and they're quite difficult to recruit for (in my experience). I'm not sure how many SMBs run internal IT departments any more, but I haven't had great experiences with outsourcing so still prefer to do as much as possible in-house. Maybe I'm just old-fashioned like that?
