Possible Refresh for Local Firehouse
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So, through my retail job, I got talking to a guy who is on the board of a local firehouse. He told me about their environment, computers, etc, and they are in desperate need of a refresh. I have no issue telling a customer I don't sell what they need and pointing them elsewhere...cough...NTG...cough
Anyways, here's the info I do have:
They currently have quite a few printers, including at least one Kyocera B/W laser and a Canon inkjet. I recommended we consolidate some of the color inkjets into one color laser, and have me come install it. I could use that time to also assess what we needed to do. I know they have wireless issues with signal quality/strength due to what I'm guessing is a highly insufficient WAP/router and having steel doors, etc. They have the system running their doors on a legacy XP desktop that, if it died, they'd be unable to unlock/open doors. Their desktops are all pretty old as well.
What I'm thinking so far:
- Ubiquiti networking equipment to replace whatever is there, with multiple WAPs to extend range and coverage
- HP Probooks for anyone with a laptop that still needs it, and HP Elitedesks for the desktops
- The Chief and Treasurer print mostly black, so eliminate what is believed to be inkjets for B/W lasers and have any color go to the color laser that I will sell them initially
- For the door system, initally P2V the machine to get it off the legacy hardware and move it to something like an HP Proliant Microserver with a RAID1
- If I can convince them to go to NTG after I've done the refresh, I can virtualize the server, because otherwise they'd be lost without IT to support them, and I'd have little choice but to go physical
- If I can get them into NTG's hands long-term, use ESXi free, at least for now, and do the P2V until another solution can be determined and also setup a Unitrends Free to back up that and anything else that might be needed
I haven't gotten to look at the environment yet, so some of this might change, and other stuff might be added. I will be getting them business-grade equipment, and my retail store sells all this stuff on the website, so I can order them all that stuff, including the Ubiquiti. My biggest concern right now is the door system, because if that machine dies, they are in SERIOUS trouble.
Of course, all this is speculative at this point, but I think there's a good chance this could happen. I know the Microservers aren't that powerful but for what I understand is needed right now, that would be fine. I doubt we'll need AD for such a small environment, as that would add a lot of complication without necessarily a lot of benefit. I will also look at how their files are laid out, and possibly recommend a ReadyNAS, depending on the need.
Thanks!
A.J. -
My big concern here... which may not be valid. What happens if your recommendations go, excuse the expression, tits up? Do you have the knowledge and backing to be able to get these guys back up and running or would you have to call in outside help. If you have to call in outside help, why didn't they just go with them in the first place?
As for your ideas, what else are they using? Is it just the aging XP "server" does the vendor offer any updates to this, building control/maintenance generally doesn't, If you are going to virtualize the XP machine you will need to ensure they have special licensing to accommodate that.
Are they printing enough to warrant a contract with an "msp"? I know a good one in the area that specializes in printing and printer leasing. They have excellent techs but ,if you are qualified, will generally ship parts for you to do maintenance.
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Security -
Don't forget to take security into consideration. My limited exposure to the Firehouse is that they will have some information. Incident reports, names, addresses. -
Is the firehouse independent or part of a town/municipality? Around here they are part of our local town and get support/maintenance from the town's IT specialists.
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Why is the choice to go physical or virtual dependant on NTGs involvement?
Surely you'd want to go virtual yourself no?
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The guy you "talked to"
Does he have a budget in mind? You are leaping from what sounds like a very low budget legacy network to quite a high cost system by comparison. If you do all this work, will they just say, oh yeah too expensive, thanks but no thanks.
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Are you working for NTG again? Why not just have them do the refresh and recommendations? Seems like going to them after the fact is not really the right way of doing it. You could potentially cost the firehouse a lot of money if NTG decides what you did wasn't the best thing available and has to redeploy.
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@coliver said:
My big concern here... which may not be valid. What happens if your recommendations go, excuse the expression, tits up? Do you have the knowledge and backing to be able to get these guys back up and running or would you have to call in outside help. If you have to call in outside help, why didn't they just go with them in the first place?
As for your ideas, what else are they using? Is it just the aging XP "server" does the vendor offer any updates to this, building control/maintenance generally doesn't, If you are going to virtualize the XP machine you will need to ensure they have special licensing to accommodate that.
Are they printing enough to warrant a contract with an "msp"? I know a good one in the area that specializes in printing and printer leasing. They have excellent techs but ,if you are qualified, will generally ship parts for you to do maintenance.
Yes, I've considered that as well. This would be something I'd probably do in stages, not all at once. I'd probably work from the bottom up, so start with printers and workstations, then work my way up to the network and their "server".
What is the special licensing I'd need for the XP machine? If I wanted to move these services to, say, a Windows 7 VM, is there special licensing I'd need for that?
I doubt they print enough to warrant a managed print contract. I don't tend to care for those anyways.
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@coliver said:
Is the firehouse independent or part of a town/municipality? Around here they are part of our local town and get support/maintenance from the town's IT specialists.
I honestly am not sure. I believe they're independent.
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@Breffni-Potter said:
Why is the choice to go physical or virtual dependant on NTGs involvement?
Surely you'd want to go virtual yourself no?
Because something like powering on the VM would be too much for them. Virtualization would obviously be the preferred method, but if they don't want to have ongoing IT support, I can't keep helping them power on a VM, etc all the time. Thus why if they can't get NTG's ongoing support, they have to be able to do it themselves, ie going physical.
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@Breffni-Potter said:
The guy you "talked to"
Does he have a budget in mind? You are leaping from what sounds like a very low budget legacy network to quite a high cost system by comparison. If you do all this work, will they just say, oh yeah too expensive, thanks but no thanks.
No budget was discussed as of yet.
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@coliver said:
Are you working for NTG again? Why not just have them do the refresh and recommendations? Seems like going to them after the fact is not really the right way of doing it. You could potentially cost the firehouse a lot of money if NTG decides what you did wasn't the best thing available and has to redeploy.
Already been talking to @Minion-Queen about it. I will be going out at some point to do some preliminary work for setting up a printer. If the scope seems to be more than I feel comfortable with, even a little, I'll pass them on to NTG for everything right from the get-go. Otherwise, I'll do the refresh personally and then have NTG do ongoing support.
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@handsofqwerty said:
@Breffni-Potter said:
Why is the choice to go physical or virtual dependant on NTGs involvement?
Surely you'd want to go virtual yourself no?
Because something like powering on the VM would be too much for them. Virtualization would obviously be the preferred method, but if they don't want to have ongoing IT support, I can't keep helping them power on a VM, etc all the time. Thus why if they can't get NTG's ongoing support, they have to be able to do it themselves, ie going physical.
Almost every virtualization solution allows you to start the VM when the server starts... it would be as simple as hitting the button to turn on the server.
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@coliver said:
@handsofqwerty said:
@Breffni-Potter said:
Why is the choice to go physical or virtual dependant on NTGs involvement?
Surely you'd want to go virtual yourself no?
Because something like powering on the VM would be too much for them. Virtualization would obviously be the preferred method, but if they don't want to have ongoing IT support, I can't keep helping them power on a VM, etc all the time. Thus why if they can't get NTG's ongoing support, they have to be able to do it themselves, ie going physical.
Almost every virtualization solution allows you to start the VM when the server starts... it would be as simple as hitting the button to turn on the server.
I am not sure if you can set this in ESXi Free. I don't remember having it when I was using the Free but I can't confirm that.
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@handsofqwerty said:
@coliver said:
@handsofqwerty said:
@Breffni-Potter said:
Why is the choice to go physical or virtual dependant on NTGs involvement?
Surely you'd want to go virtual yourself no?
Because something like powering on the VM would be too much for them. Virtualization would obviously be the preferred method, but if they don't want to have ongoing IT support, I can't keep helping them power on a VM, etc all the time. Thus why if they can't get NTG's ongoing support, they have to be able to do it themselves, ie going physical.
Almost every virtualization solution allows you to start the VM when the server starts... it would be as simple as hitting the button to turn on the server.
I am not sure if you can set this in ESXi Free. I don't remember having it when I was using the Free but I can't confirm that.
If it's possible, then that would be fine.
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@handsofqwerty said:
@coliver said:
@handsofqwerty said:
@Breffni-Potter said:
Why is the choice to go physical or virtual dependant on NTGs involvement?
Surely you'd want to go virtual yourself no?
Because something like powering on the VM would be too much for them. Virtualization would obviously be the preferred method, but if they don't want to have ongoing IT support, I can't keep helping them power on a VM, etc all the time. Thus why if they can't get NTG's ongoing support, they have to be able to do it themselves, ie going physical.
Almost every virtualization solution allows you to start the VM when the server starts... it would be as simple as hitting the button to turn on the server.
I am not sure if you can set this in ESXi Free. I don't remember having it when I was using the Free but I can't confirm that.
Why limit yourself with ESXi free? Hyper-V has more features in the free platform without any of the restrictions.
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First though would be to get an MFP/Copier under contract.
Secondly why uses ESXi free with so many limitations, if you need free hyper-v is a better option.
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@coliver said:
@handsofqwerty said:
@coliver said:
@handsofqwerty said:
@Breffni-Potter said:
Why is the choice to go physical or virtual dependant on NTGs involvement?
Surely you'd want to go virtual yourself no?
Because something like powering on the VM would be too much for them. Virtualization would obviously be the preferred method, but if they don't want to have ongoing IT support, I can't keep helping them power on a VM, etc all the time. Thus why if they can't get NTG's ongoing support, they have to be able to do it themselves, ie going physical.
Almost every virtualization solution allows you to start the VM when the server starts... it would be as simple as hitting the button to turn on the server.
I am not sure if you can set this in ESXi Free. I don't remember having it when I was using the Free but I can't confirm that.
Why limit yourself with ESXi free? Hyper-V has more features in the free platform without any of the restrictions.
Ok, well that's an option. I assume this is where I'd get it from?
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/evalcenter/evaluate-hyper-v-server-2012 -
@thecreativeone91 said:
First though would be to get an MFP/Copier under contract.
Secondly why uses ESXi free with so many limitations, if you need free hyper-v is a better option.
Again, it's something we can look into, but we'd have to see.
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@handsofqwerty said:
@Breffni-Potter said:
Why is the choice to go physical or virtual dependant on NTGs involvement?
Surely you'd want to go virtual yourself no?
Because something like powering on the VM would be too much for them. Virtualization would obviously be the preferred method, but if they don't want to have ongoing IT support, I can't keep helping them power on a VM, etc all the time. Thus why if they can't get NTG's ongoing support, they have to be able to do it themselves, ie going physical.
Why would they need to power on a VM? If they can't do that, they need assistance all the time regardless of the solution.
