Web Application VS Windows Application
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i swear i never use vb.net before, all the time i have that idea that vb is used by beginners and those who are not familiar with programming because it is more close to human language, i had previous experience with c++ and java but only small project but c# was my favorite,
now the company i work in, we have a programmer who is with me, and he is the one who is in charge of development, i'm in charge of everything IT except programming, now the management decided that i have to handle them both, in addition to my job i have to help the programmer because he was overwhelmed and there are too much work pending so i have to integrate with him to finish the work as soon as possible, i liked the idea and consider it a good opportunity to improve myself especially i have a background in programming
the problem now is that programmer is using vb.net all the time, every program in our company is vb.net, and i'm not familiar with vb.net not wanting to learn it lol
i do not have a choice i have to learn it in order to help developing the 3 year legacy programs we have already, in the same time i cannot change the programmer's mind -
@IT-ADMIN said:
i do not have a choice i have to learn it in order to help developing the 3 year legacy programs we have already, in the same time i cannot change the programmer's mind
"Programmer" might be a generous term
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If you are going to make your own code, make it in something practical. If the "developer" can't program at the level of the "non-developer" maybe that should be exposed rather than everyone catering to the "developer" that can't learn a modern language to show that he's the least capable person to be doing the work.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@IT-ADMIN said:
i do not have a choice i have to learn it in order to help developing the 3 year legacy programs we have already, in the same time i cannot change the programmer's mind
"Programmer" might be a generous term
sorry, i didn't understand ??
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ah i see, programmer is not correct, i have to use the developer
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@IT-ADMIN said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@IT-ADMIN said:
i do not have a choice i have to learn it in order to help developing the 3 year legacy programs we have already, in the same time i cannot change the programmer's mind
"Programmer" might be a generous term
sorry, i didn't understand ??
If he can only work in VB, I think calling him a programmer is likely too kind. Not that working in VB is that bad, it's just not a good choice for intentional development. But the reason that he is working in VB, because he is likely confused and unable to do development at even the level of a decent high school student (my fifteen year old niece who hates computers even knowns C#), makes it seem excessive to refer to him as a programmer. If he is below the competence of an intern in programming (we'd never consider keeping an intern that couldn't get beyond VB, right?!!?) then giving him a title like programmer is misleading.
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wait i forget hhhh,i have to be fair with him, he has developed a PHP web application
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How is his code? Does he turn out some surprisingly awesome VB? Or does it seem like he struggles to do the basics?
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@IT-ADMIN said:
wait i forget hhhh,i have to be fair with him, he has developed a PHP web application
That's a little better.
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To be fair, NTG did all VB 6 and then VB.NET development in the early years. Our head of development was a long time VB guy and really dedicated to it (but he also had extensive C and C++ experience, had written a CPU in software at 18 and for fun wrote a hypervisor in a week) and refused to stop using VB until we made it company policy that it was banned.
But once we did and he had no choice other than to switch to C# he spent a few days acclimating and was then very happy that we had done it. He coded better, faster and our products were seen as more serious. It was a win all the way around.
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vb.net has very bad reputation then hhhhhh
someone has to be shy if he tell to people : well i'm a vb.net developer, shame -
@scottalanmiller said:
@IT-ADMIN said:
wait i forget hhhh,i have to be fair with him, he has developed a PHP web application
That's a little better.
which is better in web developing : ASP.net or J2EE or PHP??
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@IT-ADMIN said:
vb.net has very bad reputation then hhhhhh
someone has to be shy if he tell to people : well i'm a vb.net developer, shameWell no one is forced to only know VB, people who work with VB during the day are always free to learn something else on their own time and should definitely be. No one expects a good developer to only ever know a single language. I've never met a good developer that was defined by a language. They work in many.
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@IT-ADMIN said:
which is better in web developing : ASP.net or J2EE or PHP??
Why would you limit to so few options and pick all ones that are not considered modern or forward looking? While none of those are bad, none would make my short list, either.
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And it is important to note that choosing a language should be done by the determination of the project at hand and never the opposite. That's one of the reasons why VB gets a bad reputation - because the reasons why it is chosen are bad. We assume that if a project is done in VB it is because someone chose VB then used it, rather than having a project, looking for the right tool and using whatever the right tool is.
To pick a good language you would start with knowing the project, then determining the needs, then picking a language and its framework together.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@IT-ADMIN said:
vb.net has very bad reputation then hhhhhh
someone has to be shy if he tell to people : well i'm a vb.net developer, shameWell no one is forced to only know VB, people who work with VB during the day are always free to learn something else on their own time and should definitely be. No one expects a good developer to only ever know a single language. I've never met a good developer that was defined by a language. They work in many.
yes you are right, this is exactly what i will do, developing the preexisting VB.net project and in the same time if we have new project at hand i will persuade the developer to use c# (80% he will refuse lol because maybe he will choose the short path and the easiest language "shitty VB.net" )
.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@IT-ADMIN said:
which is better in web developing : ASP.net or J2EE or PHP??
Why would you limit to so few options and pick all ones that are not considered modern or forward looking? While none of those are bad, none would make my short list, either.
because this what we have learned in university, and also they are well known in the market especially J2EE,
J2EE guys are well payed $$$ -
@scottalanmiller said:
And it is important to note that choosing a language should be done by the determination of the project at hand and never the opposite. That's one of the reasons why VB gets a bad reputation - because the reasons why it is chosen are bad. We assume that if a project is done in VB it is because someone chose VB then used it, rather than having a project, looking for the right tool and using whatever the right tool is.
To pick a good language you would start with knowing the project, then determining the needs, then picking a language and its framework together.
can you give me use cases where vb.net for example cannot be in the list ??knowing that the need is 90 % of the time is basic, manipulating database (add, remove , edit ....) and generate report , nothing special
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Any full language can do anything. But the "right" language for any given task would be the best one. So on one hand, you could say that VB is always acceptable as it is a full language. On the other hand, you probably cannot find any scenario where it is best, so maybe it should never be on the list.
I lean to the later, the short list should be, quite literally, the few choices that are reasonably potential to be the best for any given task.
Even in VB's wheelhouse, which is Windows desktop development, it is the secondary language to C# in use, popularity and how it is perceived by developers and is tertiary to C# and F# in being considered a modern, serious, expressive language.
So even where VB is best, it isn't good enough to reasonably consider. If you don't consider it when it is as good as it gets, why even consider it?
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@scottalanmiller said:
Any full language can do anything. But the "right" language for any given task would be the best one. So on one hand, you could say that VB is always acceptable as it is a full language. On the other hand, you probably cannot find any scenario where it is best, so maybe it should never be on the list.
I lean to the later, the short list should be, quite literally, the few choices that are reasonably potential to be the best for any given task.
Even in VB's wheelhouse, which is Windows desktop development, it is the secondary language to C# in use, popularity and how it is perceived by developers and is tertiary to C# and F# in being considered a modern, serious, expressive language.
So even where VB is best, it isn't good enough to reasonably consider. If you don't consider it when it is as good as it gets, why even consider it?
yes i agree, in my case i will reply by saying: i will consider it because the one who is in charge of developing has chosen it, so i have to accept that and just use it, otherwise i cannot work with him
