@PhlipElder said in Can you run a Windows desktop OS as a server to run AVImark Veterinary Software?:

@JaredBusch said in Can you run a Windows desktop OS as a server to run AVImark Veterinary Software?:

@PhlipElder said in Can you run a Windows desktop OS as a server to run AVImark Veterinary Software?:

We've gone through plenty of audits where QuickBooks has a company file on one PC while there are two or more other PCs accessing that company file. No issues there.

Historically, QuickBooks has only used file sharing for this. The remote users are opening the QuickBooks data file over the network. This matches the restrictions last I knew.

AVImark is connecting to a database server running on the host computer to my understanding. This is not file services, print services, IIS, or ICS.

I added to my post above.

Their system specifications clarify exactly what their setup is and does. The small setup is peer to peer. No server OS required.

RTFM

No Manual is going to override MS Licensing.

What AVImark says doesn't matter so discussing it is silly. I could care less what their hardware specs say.

AVImark now requires Guardian to be running which takes it beyond file sharing. End of story.

I have talked to many Microsoft licensing specialists and they agree.

One clinic that believes that they can run Windows desktop with AVImark is the subject of a Microsoft Audit because of that. Yes, I have first-hand knowledge of this. AVImark is not going to pay for their legal defense. I promise you that.

@PhlipElder said in Can you run a Windows desktop OS as a server to run AVImark Veterinary Software?:

If the product says it can run on Windows 10 or 11 and falls under the 20 connection limit then go for it but with one caveat: Make sure the hardware has ECC memory to avoid a memory flipped bit error that can wreak havoc and at least a RAID 1 array between two SATA SSDs.

It doesn't matter what the product says. What is important is Microsoft's TOS. Can you do it? Sure. Is it legal? No.

@Obsolesce Veterinary, but yes, same concept.
It does say for internal purposes as well, so I would buy the argument that I can be use commercially. But the buck stops at the specifically enumerated services that are acceptable.

@Obsolesce I know right?

People want to believe what gives them the best outcome regardless of the logic. It's literally one of the easiest contracts to understand, yet people WANT to interpret it in a way that benefits them because it saves them money.

The minute you go beyond the very basic services offered in device connections, you MUST use a server OS.

@scottalanmiller said in Not much luck with Linux Distro's:

@CCWTech said in Not much luck with Linux Distro's:

@Obsolesce said in Not much luck with Linux Distro's:

@CCWTech gotcha.

Yeah I've been on Mac the last few months. Still trying to learn to like it, there are a lot of minor annoyances or quirks and quality-of-life differences that make it harder to get used to. I still prefer Ubuntu over MacOS for work, and Win11 strictly for personal use.

Not sure what changed, and maybe I am speaking too soon, but after trying Nobara I reinstalled Fedora, and no crashes in 2 days...

Could just be that tehre is a new driver since then.

Very well possible.

Background: AVImark (Owned by Covetrus) is a software company that provides PIMS for vet clinics. Their software requires a Windows Server and Windows server licensing because it goes beyond just working as file sharing.

I got a message on FB Messenger (Unsolicited):

John: "Hi there! I run a small MSP in mid-Michigan that handles a few vet offices. I was wondering if I could pick your brain for a bit about some things? Heck, I'm willing to pay you for your time even.

The main thing right now is that two vets that we've taken over at are running old servers (one 2008R2 and one 2012R2). The 2008R2 one is a fairly small practice. One vet. 6 PCs. They use their server only for Avimark. And they are pretty "cost conscious" about things. Because of that, I'm thinking of just moving to a new box running Windows 10 (or 11) to act as the new Avimark server. Just curious your thoughts on running on Windows desktop instead of a full Windows Server install for such a small office running only Avimark?

Thanks!"

ME: "Hi John, I am happy to help.

It's illegal to use a desktop os for a server.

You can use a desktop pc, but you must use a server os"

JOHN: Hmmm... We may need to agree to disagree on this (as many experts do), but for the sake of argument....

First, even if it was a Terms of Service violation, that would not make it illegal. TOSs are considered civil matters. It is not "illegal" to violate one. So, no, it isn't illegal.

Second, I don't believe that it violates the Windows 10 TOS. And, again, this is very commonly discussed among experts. Windows 10/11 have a 20 device limit for connections. Clearly, MS had multiple PCs accessing it in mind. They even specifically address that Windows Desktop cannot be used as a WEB server because of the 20 connection limit and that each person connecting would be considered another connection. So, since they've made it clear that you can connect up to 20 devices to Desktop -- and said that you can't use IIS as a web server on it -- then that would pretty clearly imply that you CAN use it for server purposes under 20 users. It literally has file sharing built in.

Finally, the official Hardware Requirements for Avimark specifically mention using a Windows 10 PC (running Desktop Windows, not Server) as being acceptable for a smaller office. So are you suggesting that Avimark's own Hardware Requirements recommend an illegal act?

Again, I don't mean that harshly. But this sort of thing is commonly discussion among IT professionals -- and the general consensus is that for situations with under 20 concurrent connections from different devices, the Windows license actually DOES allow this.

Note that software like Quickbooks also runs exactly like this. It is normally installed to a Workstation and shared from there. Very normal in small businesses."

---

This comes up so often I thought I would do a video on it. It's not a SAM quality video but it was just so bizarre to me.

Youtube Video

@Obsolesce said in Not much luck with Linux Distro's:

@CCWTech gotcha.

Yeah I've been on Mac the last few months. Still trying to learn to like it, there are a lot of minor annoyances or quirks and quality-of-life differences that make it harder to get used to. I still prefer Ubuntu over MacOS for work, and Win11 strictly for personal use.

Not sure what changed, and maybe I am speaking too soon, but after trying Nobara I reinstalled Fedora, and no crashes in 2 days...

@Obsolesce said in Not much luck with Linux Distro's:

@CCWTech did it run fine with Win11? Why go to an OS that is causing constant issues as you mentioned in the OP?

Yes, no problems with Win 11.

Why run Linux? Well, Windows has sufficient issues as well... Long reboots for updates, slower performance, spyware/adware included in the OS, etc...

Admittedly there is some novelty for me to run Linux. I like running it because other than the lockup issue, in other ways it's pretty awesome compared to Windows.

@CCWTech Still lockups... when Nobara crashes (Like Ubuntu and Kubuntu) I have to force off the PC with the power button. At least Fedora was generating errors and reporting them (and only taking me back to the login screen). So back to Fedora it is for me.

@GUIn00b It't now up for 4.5 hours without issues.
One of the odd things is that it seems like every update recommends a reboot. I don't know if that is just the type of updates that have been pushed or if it's normal. Still evaluating. Thanks for the links, I'll check them out. I'm also looking at the Reddit group for Nobara.

@CCWTech Super bizarre. So far Nobara iis VERY unstable... Uninstalled NVIDIA drivers and re-installed. It's the worst I have had so far... Installed all updates.

Super odd, I can run WIndows for weeks without problems, but really don't like the Windows environment...

@CCWTech Rebooting to install Nobara (NVIDA build) now...

@GUIn00b I was limited on what I could get into the country I am in without paying heavy import taxes. It had to be super small and support 4 monitors. But if I could I would for sure use AMD.

I'm currently out of town but I will try Nobara when I get back to my office.

Yet another...

I can't access my State of Utah Retirment: https://www.urs.org/

@Mario-Jakovina said in Is it racist? I think it is.:

@CCWTech said in Is it racist? I think it is.:

https://gephardtdaily.com/

There is one example.

It is geo blocked in my country.
But I do not find it racist

Should we call it unnecessarily discriminatory (Instead of racist?)

https://gephardtdaily.com/

There is one example.

@EddieJennings said in Not much luck with Linux Distro's:

Have you tried Pop_OS with the preinstalled Nvidia driver? Been a while since I've used Pop, and the nvidia card I have is old, but I don't recall a bad experience.

No I haven't. I may check it out. Thanks!

@Obsolesce said in Is it racist? I think it is.:

@CCWTech said in Is it racist? I think it is.:

@Obsolesce said in Is it racist? I think it is.:

@Obsolesce said in Is it racist? I think it is.:

You are mistaking ancestry, ethnicity, culture, religion, nationality, and linguistic group with race.

Which of those you use to identify with is your choice. But are all different things.

So what race is someone who is mixed?

They get to choose... How does that even work?

Example?

Someone who is white and black. They almost always choose black. Why? How do they even have a choice?